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	<title>Comments on: Truths and myths on the web development world</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.heavyworks.net/blog/posts/truths-and-myths-on-the-web-development-world/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.heavyworks.net/blog/posts/truths-and-myths-on-the-web-development-world</link>
	<description>Extreme Software Engineering</description>
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		<title>By: Bruno Lustosa</title>
		<link>http://www.heavyworks.net/blog/posts/truths-and-myths-on-the-web-development-world/comment-page-1#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruno Lustosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavyworks.net/?p=31#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Gotta agree with Jan on this.
If PHP code is to be delimited by , for me, the very definition of &quot;delimited&quot; says that I shall have  in the end, at least, according to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://pear.php.net/manual/en/standards.tags.php&quot;&gt;PEAR Coding Standards&lt;/a&gt;.
Granted, it works without it, but I don&#039;t think it&#039;s good practice to leave it out.
Accidents? If there&#039;s a whitespace in the end of my files, it&#039;s because I put it there, and I know what I&#039;m doing. There are no accidents (at least not like this).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta agree with Jan on this.<br />
If <acronym title="PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor">PHP</acronym> code is to be delimited by , for me, the very definition of &#8220;delimited&#8221; says that I shall have  in the end, at least, according to the <a href="http://pear.php.net/manual/en/standards.tags.php">PEAR Coding Standards</a>.<br />
Granted, it works without it, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s good practice to leave it out.<br />
Accidents? If there&#8217;s a whitespace in the end of my files, it&#8217;s because I put it there, and I know what I&#8217;m doing. There are no accidents (at least not like this).</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Seidl</title>
		<link>http://www.heavyworks.net/blog/posts/truths-and-myths-on-the-web-development-world/comment-page-1#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Seidl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavyworks.net/?p=31#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Well, Its not because the guy invented the language that he can rule the coding standards.

Its not needed, ok. But it exists so it shall be used. I disagree with the Zend guy, even he creating php. This statement of his just make me wonder if I want to use a language where the author tells you to code poorly.

Its not apples and oranges. Yes, we are talking about markup vs processing language but structure is structure.

If your FTP or IDE or ANYTHING puts unwanted data on your code, switch your application.

Accidental whitespaces. Accident happens when errors happens. A stable code/environment shall not have &quot;accidents&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Its not because the guy invented the language that he can rule the coding standards.</p>
<p>Its not needed, ok. But it exists so it shall be used. I disagree with the Zend guy, even he creating php. This statement of his just make me wonder if I want to use a language where the author tells you to code poorly.</p>
<p>Its not apples and oranges. Yes, we are talking about markup vs processing language but structure is structure.</p>
<p>If your <acronym title="File Transfer Protocol">FTP</acronym> or IDE or ANYTHING puts unwanted data on your code, switch your application.</p>
<p>Accidental whitespaces. Accident happens when errors happens. A stable code/environment shall not have &#8220;accidents&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: yongfook</title>
		<link>http://www.heavyworks.net/blog/posts/truths-and-myths-on-the-web-development-world/comment-page-1#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>yongfook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavyworks.net/?p=31#comment-26</guid>
		<description>what this guy said.

plus it&#039;s one of Zend&#039;s coding standards (you know, the guys who created php...) to leave off the closing tag in php-only files.  I like to think they know what they are talking about:

http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/coding-standard.php-file-formatting.html

it completely eradicates the possibility of header-related errors caused by whitespace in php files, therefore it can only be a good thing.

the fact that a close tag exists doesn&#039;t mean you&#039;re meant to close it, it just means you&#039;re meant to close it if something non-php appears after your php code.  your comparison to html doesn&#039;t make sense at all, that&#039;s a markup language with entirely different rules.  apples &amp; oranges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what this guy said.</p>
<p>plus it&#8217;s one of Zend&#8217;s coding standards (you know, the guys who created php&#8230;) to leave off the closing tag in php-only files.  I like to think they know what they are talking about:</p>
<p><a href="http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/coding-standard.php-file-formatting.html" rel="nofollow">http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/coding-standard.php-file-formatting.html</a></p>
<p>it completely eradicates the possibility of header-related errors caused by whitespace in php files, therefore it can only be a good thing.</p>
<p>the fact that a close tag exists doesn&#8217;t mean you&#8217;re meant to close it, it just means you&#8217;re meant to close it if something non-php appears after your php code.  your comparison to html doesn&#8217;t make sense at all, that&#8217;s a markup language with entirely different rules.  apples &amp; oranges.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.heavyworks.net/blog/posts/truths-and-myths-on-the-web-development-world/comment-page-1#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavyworks.net/?p=31#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Re: leaving out the close tag in PHP-only files. It is good advice. When you&#039;re talking about hundreds of classes in your application and you see your app dying with &#039;Headers already sent&#039; error, you&#039;ll understand why. Comparison with malformed HTML is ridiculous and completely off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: leaving out the close tag in <acronym title="PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor">PHP</acronym>-only files. It is good advice. When you&#8217;re talking about hundreds of classes in your application and you see your app dying with &#8216;Headers already sent&#8217; error, you&#8217;ll understand why. Comparison with malformed <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> is ridiculous and completely off.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Seidl</title>
		<link>http://www.heavyworks.net/blog/posts/truths-and-myths-on-the-web-development-world/comment-page-1#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Seidl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavyworks.net/?p=31#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Jacob,

I&#039;ve tried to make this article the less &quot;Implying&quot; possible, even left he message for you to not take it personally.

The thing in focus I criticize is that most of the articles defends their opinions without giving the reader the CONS and without giving the scenario (generic apps) that we are talking about.

The result as i&#039;ve seen many times are people taking this as the only truth.

In fact, &quot;frameworks to speed up&quot; itself isn&#039;t a myth but if you generalize, it is (not saying you did).

Not attacking, just giving the full side of the story =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tried to make this article the less &#8220;Implying&#8221; possible, even left he message for you to not take it personally.</p>
<p>The thing in focus I criticize is that most of the articles defends their opinions without giving the reader the CONS and without giving the scenario (generic apps) that we are talking about.</p>
<p>The result as i&#8217;ve seen many times are people taking this as the only truth.</p>
<p>In fact, &#8220;frameworks to speed up&#8221; itself isn&#8217;t a myth but if you generalize, it is (not saying you did).</p>
<p>Not attacking, just giving the full side of the story =)</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Gube</title>
		<link>http://www.heavyworks.net/blog/posts/truths-and-myths-on-the-web-development-world/comment-page-1#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Gube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavyworks.net/?p=31#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Jan,

I see your concerns. It&#039;s true - it&#039;s very hard to fit developers into one mold. But when you quote me on &quot;faster is better&quot;, I think you are sort of implying that I&#039;m advocating speed at all cost, regardless of quality - which can be farther from the truth.  I don&#039;t think that producing faster automatically equates to poorer-quality code - the article aims to speed up your workflow and your processes, not make you take ill-advised shortcuts. 

For example, with IDE&#039;s: they improve your work processes and bring together all the tools you need in a convenient interface, saving you from learning multiple applications and cluttering your workspace with multiple apps.

For your framework comment: I&#039;m not thinking large-scale, highly-customized apps (though Twitter did manage to do it with Rails) - I was thinking generic applications. At the same time, it&#039;s got to be a very complex system for its requirements not to be met with a solid framework like Rails or Zend. I&#039;d have to disagree that using frameworks to speed up development time is  myth: more often than not, it speeds up your production - but we also have to take into account that it&#039;s a tool to get things done, it&#039;s up to the creator to wield that tool properly.

About using pre-made classes: again, I emphasize that you should know what you&#039;re doing. For example, I was looking for a Yahoo! Search Boss class for a site-specific search (to try and save me some time or at the very least, to get me started) - alas, I did not find one that&#039;s well-written, so I wrote my own. And that&#039;s just it: If you don&#039;t know how a piece of code works, you shouldn&#039;t be including it into your projects.

Finally, the article is meant as suggestions, &quot;ways you CAN save time&quot;, not &quot;things you NEED to do to be an effective developer&quot;.

Thanks for reading my article, and thank you for sharing your viewpoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jan,</p>
<p>I see your concerns. It&#8217;s true &#8211; it&#8217;s very hard to fit developers into one mold. But when you quote me on &#8220;faster is better&#8221;, I think you are sort of implying that I&#8217;m advocating speed at all cost, regardless of quality &#8211; which can be farther from the truth.  I don&#8217;t think that producing faster automatically equates to poorer-quality code &#8211; the article aims to speed up your workflow and your processes, not make you take ill-advised shortcuts. </p>
<p>For example, with IDE&#8217;s: they improve your work processes and bring together all the tools you need in a convenient interface, saving you from learning multiple applications and cluttering your workspace with multiple apps.</p>
<p>For your framework comment: I&#8217;m not thinking large-scale, highly-customized apps (though Twitter did manage to do it with Rails) &#8211; I was thinking generic applications. At the same time, it&#8217;s got to be a very complex system for its requirements not to be met with a solid framework like Rails or Zend. I&#8217;d have to disagree that using frameworks to speed up development time is  myth: more often than not, it speeds up your production &#8211; but we also have to take into account that it&#8217;s a tool to get things done, it&#8217;s up to the creator to wield that tool properly.</p>
<p>About using pre-made classes: again, I emphasize that you should know what you&#8217;re doing. For example, I was looking for a Yahoo! Search Boss class for a site-specific search (to try and save me some time or at the very least, to get me started) &#8211; alas, I did not find one that&#8217;s well-written, so I wrote my own. And that&#8217;s just it: If you don&#8217;t know how a piece of code works, you shouldn&#8217;t be including it into your projects.</p>
<p>Finally, the article is meant as suggestions, &#8220;ways you CAN save time&#8221;, not &#8220;things you NEED to do to be an effective developer&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thanks for reading my article, and thank you for sharing your viewpoint.</p>
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